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Spurs vs Juventus 2.45pm Tues Mar 7 @Flannery's

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seppoyiddo View Drop Down
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    Posted: Feb 13 2018 at 10:59am
The hangover finally starting to fade, Spurs travel to Turin with the NLD squad intact, playing Juve for the first time in a competitive match. Make sure to see it at Flannery's.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Park Slope Yid2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 13 2018 at 6:07pm
Massive, massive result.  Disastrous start, fabulous recovery.  We bossed Juventus away from home.  Incredible - I didn't believe we could get past Juve - but now sky's the limit.  If we beat Juve we could win the whole damn thing!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 14 2018 at 10:39am
Great team performance, excellent result! Cant get carried away...as they will probably have Dybala and Matuidi back at Wembley and will be more determined, but on our side I hope we have Toby and Lucas well integrated by then. Only worrying positions we have are full backs, all 4 of them have obvious flaws, hoping atleast they avoid becoming liabilities in big games. Delle needs a rest.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Park Slope Yid2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 14 2018 at 4:48pm
Yes Dybala and Matuidi were sorely missed by Juve yesterday.  I'd been watching as many of their matches ahead of our meeting and I was not optimistic on our chances.   Both those players featured in the games I watched, though Dybala only as a sub as then he was, even then still coming back from injury.   Seems like his injury might be a long term problem (I can't say 'hopefully').
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seppoyiddo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 07 2018 at 3:24pm
Round 2 Have at it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seppoyiddo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 07 2018 at 3:29pm
Sonny you beauty COYS
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 07 2018 at 4:37pm
The number of fouls that the ref missed from juve was fucking unbelievable however he did miss an obvious penalty to them so I guess we had it coming. In the end I think it was just down to a lack of belief - simple as that. We threw it away by not killing it off and the inevitable 5 mins of brain fade.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 07 2018 at 4:56pm
At the end it is not about playing the best football, or accumulating the most points over 2 seasons or topping your CL mini table when other teams are not at their peak. Its about showing mental toughness when everything is on the line, its about getting the job done when you are on the brink of knockout - and sadly not much has changed in that respect with this team. Sure we fought hard, sure we dominated about 150 out of the 180 mins of the two leg tie, but we froze when it mattered most and we came out with nothing. You could say an experienced side tutored us. Will we learn and improve next year if we get in? I think we are long long way away yet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rob_k Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 07 2018 at 5:06pm
A strong performance and heartbreaking result.

Very hard to take given how consistently one way the match was called, from the handball in their box to the blatant shirt tug in their box to the uncalled foul on Son followed by the uncalled straight red stamping on him to that pathetic dive from Dybala at the end - yet of course the commentary repeatedly focused on Jan's challenge to the point it could've been made into a drinking game.

But aside from that, the ultimate difference is that we can outplay world-class clubs but often lack clinical finishing. Our game right now is keeping a strong back line, dominating the midfield, and scoring by attrition. Could've had 2 or 3 goals in the first half alone, which is a common theme. We have very few holes to fill in our depth right now (both being big asks, a capable understudy for Eriksen and a reliable one for Kane), but the one glaring thing we need to improve to jump to an elite level is converting more chances when we're dominating play.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 07 2018 at 6:11pm
As Chiellini said they knew we always concede chances...they just waited and exploited them when they came. I have said before we have a big problem at full back positions with all 4 candidates having glaring weaknesses that are often exploited. Our CBs are usually solid but had some bad patches today. And our finishing (Kane included) is very subpar given the number of chances we create. So we were not unlucky but just not good enough to get it done - no shame in admitting that. Just improve on these weaknesses and we can hope to challenge for honors.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 07 2018 at 6:13pm
This from Chiellini :(. How do we ever get over the hump:

"It's the history of Tottenham: they always create many chances to score so much, but they miss something to arrive at the end."
"We believe in history. We saw yesterday, in Paris Saint-Germain-Real Madrid, experience is important, and we used our skill."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rob_k Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 07 2018 at 6:30pm
Originally posted by samd samd wrote:

This from Chiellini :(. How do we ever get over the hump:

"It's the history of Tottenham: they always create many chances to score so much, but they miss something to arrive at the end."
"We believe in history. We saw yesterday, in Paris Saint-Germain-Real Madrid, experience is important, and we used our skill."


Oh screw him and his "history" lecture. Where's his CL medal? Their history includes losing the final to Real Madrid, whom we then embarrassed. If Barzagli gets sent off in the first half for a clear red, we're probably taking target practice for the rest of the match.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rob_k Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 07 2018 at 6:44pm
Silver lining: All hands on deck now for a winnable FA Cup and a finish in the top 4/3/2!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Park Slope Yid2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 08 2018 at 11:26am
Before we played Juventus I watched several of their matches and I was pessimistic on our chances.  It is just a matter of experience.   The Juve manager and team have reached the final of the CL twice in last four years.  They are seasoned and ruthless pros who know how to rise to a challenge and defend a lead much better than we do.   Don't get mad at Chiellini .. he's just stating a fact of our present level.  Remember he gave Kane a big bear hug after the first match.
My take is that we did really well to take it as close as we did with Juve.  We've come a very long way with still a way to go.  But losing 4-3 over 180 minutes is no disgrace.  Poch is learning how to manage at this level too, not just the players.   I really hope they all stay together because in 2 seasons at most we will be serious contenders.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote manhattanspur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 08 2018 at 12:31pm
Chiellini is right. We suffered again at the highest level from Poch's achilles heel, his inability to make in-game tactical switches/substitutions.

Don't get me wrong, I still think Poch is a great manager and want him at our club for years to come.

Alli's yellow card caused him to stop committing to tackles. Poch failed to react to Juve substituting both full backs and doubling up on ours, which caused the pressure leading to both goals. After their subs I would have taken off Alli & Son for Wanyama & Lamela and switched to 3-4-3 with Dier dropping back. Lamela would have protected Trippier better and we would have squeezed out the gaps that appeared in central defence.

Lessons learned both for the squad and Poch.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BROOKLYNSPUR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 08 2018 at 12:51pm
We played well and shouldn’t have lost, but one of the things that has been really annoying me (most notably on social media) every time we fall short is “oh I am proud of this team.” Really?? At some point, we have to do something other than come close. We had the best team in the premier league, IMO, the last two seasons and didn’t win it. Leicester fing City won, but we were proud of our team even though we self-destructed at Chelsea when chasing Leicester. There comes a point where if we are going to keep progressing we need to win. We have no idea what will happen this summer, and if we will get this chance again. We would not have won the Champions League if we won yesterday, but unlike 2010/2011 we could win any tie we were in and I am really pissed we could not move forward in the tournament even though we outplayed them for 170 of 180 minutes. I always hear people quoting the “I would rather fail aiming high, than succeed aiming low.” I believe in that saying, but when you fail you don’t take a bow and say how proud you were because than you are really aiming low. Most angry I have ever been as a Spurs supporter in ten years. We had this.
I am the dope who said Harry Kane was a Championship level player
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Park Slope Yid2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 08 2018 at 2:42pm
I have to disagree that 'we had this'.  Short answer is they figured us out, we couldn't figure them out and adjust sufficiently during play.   I'm not surprised, and the sense of disappointment I feel will dissipate with a good result over Swansea.rm 

We have made concrete and tangible progress.  Just remember when RM visited WHL 4-5 seasons ago and Modric (at that point an RM player) said after the match that RM had gone easy on us.   We looked like a bunch of frightened rabbits way out of our depth.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 08 2018 at 4:36pm
I agree with Brooklyn, at some point potential has to translate into measurable results. And this is the season. I am still holding judgement because I really strongly feel that the FA cup is very achievable and we should win it if we really give it our very best now. CL was gonna be a step too far anyway, if not this round, next rd against RM, Barca, Bayern or City. But if we blow the FA cup and finish out of top 4, the writing is on the wall for this team. All the players to whom we have been giving a pass because of their potential, will conveniently start looking for other clubs, and maybe the manager too. And we will be back where we started.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rob_k Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 09 2018 at 3:09pm
Originally posted by Park Slope Yid2 Park Slope Yid2 wrote:

Before we played Juventus I watched several of their matches and I was pessimistic on our chances.  It is just a matter of experience.   The Juve manager and team have reached the final of the CL twice in last four years.  They are seasoned and ruthless pros who know how to rise to a challenge and defend a lead much better than we do.   Don't get mad at Chiellini .. he's just stating a fact of our present level.  Remember he gave Kane a big bear hug after the first match.
My take is that we did really well to take it as close as we did with Juve.  We've come a very long way with still a way to go.  But losing 4-3 over 180 minutes is no disgrace.  Poch is learning how to manage at this level too, not just the players.   I really hope they all stay together because in 2 seasons at most we will be serious contenders.


I'm not going to give Chiellini too much credit for admitting Europe's leading scorer from 2017 ranks among the best scorers in Europe. We do lack their CL experience, which, let's be fair, is not surprising given their wage structure allows them to pick and choose players as the big fish in a smaller-pond league, while we're struggling to keep an integral player like Toby and had to rebuild after losing Bale and Modric. But there's a way to be professional and tout your own club's performance and experience without shitting on the other club's "history" and mental toughness and then going on TV after that to quote fuckface Szczesny - who couldn't make our squad on a good day during a flu epidemic - about us being "Spursy." Bush league moves on his part. If I'm not mistaken, his own history includes never winning a CL, WC, or Euro. I don't remember anyone touting their club's or manager's experience and toughness after they gave away a 2-0 lead at home and missed a PK, and no one would be touting it now if their two fouls in the box were called or if Barzagli had been sent off in the first half. A lot of their "experience" is the typical Serie A commedia dell-arte antics, so it's more than a bit nauseating to hear any of their players talk about our toughness. And his regurgitating the media's "win a trophy" canard is low. At this point, I'm sick of that talking point getting thrown at us as we're building something impressive and making strides every season in the face of the rich clubs while a club like Liverpool gets a free pass of any expectations.

I had a similar feeling as you headed into this week. I still think the difference in these matches is we lack a clinical edge, which is not all that surprising given that our wage structure right now keeps us from buying elite, finished products in their prime. Our youth is by design and necessity. It's all very nice for Mr. Chiellini that he plays for a club that can raid their league rivals for their no. 9 and no. 10, but I think we merit enormous praise for the grit we've shown in winning the group of death and playing both of last season's finalists even over the course of 4 matches. The 3-minutes letdown was a damn shame because we played such a strong match otherwise. I'd like to see the numbers on 50/50 headers from this match because it seemed like we were winning most of them.

People can criticize Poch for not instantly changing tactics, but I have to imagine he was thinking we were one goal away from putting the match away, we were dominating play, and they had collected yellows. Some of it has to come down to the players not getting caught out on transition. There were still 30 minutes left in the match and I don't know if I want us to fall back into a shell, like they did in the first match. I think my biggest issue is ending the match without Moura or Wanyama on the pitch.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Park Slope Yid2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 10 2018 at 6:19am
Harry Redknap couldn't resist a bit of monday morning QBing in his usual opportunistic way, but I think he had a point.  He said Poch should have taken Ali off on the hour and brought on Wanyama to nurse the lead.   We'll never know, but we were and remain magnificent and I love this team more than ever.

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